So there was a little tempest in a teapot in writerville last weekend.
The details are readily available elsewhere, so I won't belabor them. The short version is that in comments in a nationally-available magazine, one of the writers from the first season of LOST, a writer who's no longer with the show, made what seemed to be disparaging comments about the LOST writers, comments that were easily interpretable as "these guys have no idea what's going to happen on the show."
Lots of nettie explosions later, there was a response by one of the guy's colleagues, and a current LOST writer. It was a good post...it illuminated a lot of the process of working on LOST, with tantalizing glimpses into the specifics of story breaking of some of the first season's episodes.
And by Monday, said writer had taken it down, saying that the issues raised by the article and his response were better dealt with in private.
Which, in case you're paying attention, is a pretty nifty admission of the thing that makes writers' rooms work: what happens there, stays there.
The writer's room, by definition, has to be a place of trust. When you're working on a show, you're going to probably spend more time in that room with the people in that room than you will with loved ones and family. You are going to say a lot of stupid things, some outrageous things. You're going to disagree and bang your head against the wall and eat pretzels and potato chips and probably drink way more Diet Coke than is healthy.
It's a difficult and sensitive process when you're in the middle of it -- and almost incomprehensible if you're on the outside.
The LOST spat, and another incident that was brewing in H'wood over the last year (a lawsuit where a writer's assistant on Friends sued for sexual harassment over some stuff that was said in the writer's room) pulls back the lid a bit on an area of television writing that, I feel, can't and shouldn't take much scrutiny.
Being inside a writer's room means hearing things, and saying things, that may be off color or not acceptable in other workplaces -- because the most important thing is breaking the story.
Being inside a writer's room means having to be savvy about group dynamics; if you're gregarious, you have to know when to back off. If you're reticent, you have to learn when to shout down. Because it's a tricky group dynamic, often times given the choice between hiring a superb but difficult writer, and a writer who's good but not superb, but better in the room, you will always go with the latter because it's better for the show.
In other words, if you have any hopes of writing on staff for a tv show, who you are as a person is at least as important as how you write.
The writer's room is a place of trust -- I know I've said that before, but it's so important that I'll say it again...and building that trust means giving into some important principles.
The most important is that what happens in the room stays in the room. You do not betray confidences. You don't go running to mom if someone says something that upsets you; you deal with it then and there.
Once an idea is out there, it belongs to the room. Many's the time that someone has said, "hey, did you come up with that line?" later -- sometimes even an Exec Producer with whom you could curry favor by saying yes, and I've answered "I really don't remember." If you want to really work well, you credit the room. The nice side of this is that when something screws up, you also blame the room. You don't hang out the episode writer to dry or the person who was story editing that episode, because you know who got what episode is largely logistical.
(You do screw freelancers. Sorry. Heh heh.)
Part of this is again, personal group dynamics. You don't want someone who keeps track and guards every idea that they come up with, or someone who never misses an opportunity to remind you that they came up with something. That sucks. But part of it is also necessity...because things move fast in the room. If you come up with an idea, and that sparks someone else to say one thing that makes you think about it differently, and oh yeah, didn't that other guy say that thing 20 minutes ago that we couldn't make work, but now that I think about it...
Okay, stop. Now...who came up with that idea?
Credit the room.
In order to be able to do that, you have to let go of a bit of your individual ego, and really, truly try to credit and form a group ego. If that gets betrayed in any way, the betrayal can seem personal and catastrophic. That's what the LOST spat was about.
If you want to understand the need for freedom and how people really need to cut loose in the room, see The Aristocrats. It's by no means a great movie, but I think by the end of it, you get a good look into how creative people work, and how important pushing the boundaries and being fearless is a part of that.
That's the inside stuff.
The outside explanation of why what happens in the room needs to stay there is this:
Fans will never get it, and the further they try to get it, the more poison is introduced into the process.
Writers crave approval. They do. It's a lonely job, and it's natural to want approval. But the more I do this, the more I think that professional writers need to insulate themselves from their fan base. It's not just the disasters that ensue when Simpsons or West Wing writers get into dustups with their online fans; it's that the internet's ability to disseminate any little nugget of info renders what would be a small, entre famille feud (Like the LOST spat) into a huge freaking deal that will never go away -- and is picked over obsessively by fanboys who will never understand what they're talking about because they have not and never will be in the room.
When a writer says to another writer about LOST, "they know where they're going," a writer with any experience knows what that means. It means that they have the basics of their mythology sketched out. They know what the major mysteries are and how they will resolve. But the individual details of how A goes to B -- well, the fact that they don't know that yet doesn't mean they don't know where they're going, it's the air that feeds the flame of the creative process.
To say that you have a show where you have every detail of every episode worked out over five years perfectly ahead of time -- well...uh...that's kind of going into Beautiful Mind schizophrenic territory. Of course you don't. Yes, I know that JMS had a five year plan for Babylon 5. But that five year plan was broad strokes, not every freaking detail...that's why he was able to adjust to things like cast departures.
But the problem is that to a fan, they look at TV like they look at a novel. It exists, and if "you're just making it up as you go along," then the moment something happens that they don't like, they ascribe it to desperation or "not having a plan."
In short...there's just no talking to these people.
Years ago, I remember reading how magicians were pissed at Penn & Teller because they revealed how tricks were done. I thought they were being prickly. Penn & Teller were just hilarious.
Well, I still think that, but now I also understand the objection. The focus should always be on the product, on the story. But the fan impulse (the root IS fanatic, after all) is always to know more, more, more details about the how.
But just because they want to know, doesn't mean you tell them. Even if it would make you feel good about yourself. Even if it would be fun. Because at the end of the day, even if you show them how the trick is done, they don't have the context to understand what they've seen.
Now, if there is a cone of silence around the process, that does make it difficult for aspiring writers. I know that. How do you get around that? Well, get yourself in position to actually talk to writers, however you can. And take classes on things like psychology and group dynamics. Learn about personality types. Understanding people is way more important for writers, than hearing the latest skank about what went on in the LOST writing room.
Most of all, stop thinking like a fan.
Train yourself out of it. There are shows that I watch and love, but I try always to approach it from a professional side: how would I have done that, or what are they going for there? NOT...how could they get X and Y together, etc, etc, etc.
18 comments:
Fantastic post, Denis. You've said everything that has been on my mind for the past year or so regarding the plot developments and long-term strategies of my series.
I've never been in a writers room, nor have I been privy to the top secret goings-on at the executive level on any show, so I can only watch TV and analyze it as a fanboy -- er, girl.
All four years of my series have been mapped out -- but not in meticulous detail, because I know shit happens. Cast members quit or die, budgets get cut, writers you've come to depend on for their brilliance and 'creative vision' defect to another show. Just as with Lost, or Buffy or Babylon 5 I have an idea where it's going -- where I want it to go -- but I also realize that things are going to go off-track on numerous occasions and I should just learn to go with the flow.
As for the whole issue about interacting with fans to get their input or approval on plots, character developments etc., I'm really on the fence with this one. I understand the need for boundaries. I don't want my writers to get angered or annoyed by all the shit that fans will undoubtedly throw their way when beloved characters are written out of the show (the furor over MV's sudden exit from Alias is a perfect example). It's all part of my master plan. However, my series was also designed with a sense of global community in mind (let's all join hands and sing Kumbaya!). I want the fans to interact with the show's stars and production team, including myself, through the official website. I'll have a blog there, so will some of the actors and writers. I intend to encourage fan input because I feel their ideas will make the show richer and more globally appealing. But at the same time, I'm mindful that too many cooks in the kitchen is a recipe for disaster.
Is there a happy medium? I guess I'll find out soon enough.
Um, where do I find those inappropriate comments the guy made? Must be cached somewhere...
David Fury rules!
but so does Javi
I always figured it had to have been a bad break-up given that it was mid season when Fury left.
It'll be great to see him back on 24 again though.
Alex I think Javi deleted the post from his journal
...which is why I didn't use his name, or the other writer's.
The whole point of the post points out why what happens in the room should stay in the room. I did my best to leave names out. It's unfortunate that they couldn't be kept out of the comments section. I easily could have used names. I chose not to. Please read the post again and see if you can figure out why.
Relax.
Anyone who follows LOST/24 TV in general or is a Joss Whedon fan knows all about Fury leaving mid season.
The question of whether the comments were inappropriate can only be determined by the two parties...not by people on the internet.
And the question on how much of the mythology was actually planned and outlined on LOST prior to the show airing is probably open for debate still.
This post made me sad. I'm curious about the TV writing process as a fangirl because I recently discovered I knew nothing about it, until I started reading blogs like yours. I had no idea what a collaborative process it is, or how different the writer's role is on TV compared to a movie. As someone who likes to write, but not that kind of writing, I feel a little like an anthropologist trying to figure out this foreign culture. So the post made me sad to think you don't want people like me to know about it ... until I realized you just told me what I wanted to know about the process and how the writers work together. So thanks. I'm not sad anymore.
That was a great post. Thank you very much. One question... how do you get your idiot producers to stay out of the writer's room, as well as their lame ideas?
Can I just yell "Go fill out a government form!!" or "Go cut my cheque, you're only my producer because I was too stupid to pitch to more than two companies, and you were very flattering when I first met you, but now I realize you're a dick unless you want something from me!"?
Just kidding. They are really super wonderful people.
Shake:
You simply don't get it. Next.
Jutratest:
Maybe I'm lucky. Most of the producers I've worked with have actually had good ideas. And have enough sense to stay out of the room. If they're a true producer, they should be too busy to be in the room anyway. They get more than enough chance to have their say later. But again, personality of the producer and how much they respect writers is a key consideration.
deekay:
Well shucks, ma'am. Yer welcome.
Actually I do get it. But I simply don't care.
shakey boy, you may want to go with the "don't get it." "I don't get it" or "I don't recall," which is "I don't get it"'s rural cousin, was good enough for a U.S. President.
don't get it means that you simply missed the sentiment behind the post, the reasons why emotions would run high enough for a spat like that to happen, and how appreciation for the work and the creative people involved by the author would cause them to omit names, simply for propriety's sake...
..don't care means that you attach greater value to the fanboy sensibility of being the one to break the info, and damn the torpedoes.
You look better playing don't get it. Really.
But then again, since there's no consequences to being a big ol' anonymous internet lion, you can probably front the whole "don't care" thing, too.
But you're NOT invited into the room, then, cochise...
wait...let me guess. "don't care about that, either."
great.
Who wants pie?
When I say I don't care, I'm refering to the fact that I'm indifferent to the idea that on a blog in which the author posted about another blog's post, which has been discussed on 20 other blogs/message boards/etc, the subject matter and concept of "the room" is too sacred that naming who the two writers are is somehow a great sin.
I get why you may have decided to take that route, but its your choice and opinion...not fact. Saying that I like both writers and the break-up doesn't really hurt LOST and it helps 24 isn't gossip, it's just fact.
Fury is a very good writer and I'm sure whatever reasons for his leaving contributed to the "alleged" spat. However it won't hurt LOST and 24 will be better with him back.
While the "room" is a distinct entity and place in itself, the writer's room is no different than lots of other jobs that require a team dynamic in order to function...
Do I want to be in the room? Sure...but it depends on the room and there are a lot of other things I could end up doing which will be just as exciting or fulfilling, if not more so. So its not a big deal to me if I don't ever end up in the room, but my ability to write will be just as important as my ability to sell myself as a personality that can function with the rest fo the team.
p.s.
the whole "what happens here, stays here" is great in theory but in practice whether it be Vegas, Mexico, Spring Break, the team clubhouse, the "room", and everything else...it often doesn't work in reality. People will always clash and lips will always be loose.
People will always clash and lips will always be loose.
Uh...no.
That's um...
Wrong.
While the "room" is a distinct entity and place in itself, the writer's room is no different than lots of other jobs that require a team dynamic in order to function.
Uh...um...well...
How to put this?
Uh...
Wrong.
But sure...you get it. Enjoy the pie.
Regarding the observation that "People will always clash and lips will always be loose"... well, master shake is absolutely right, Dude. And no amount of supercilious bullshit ("Um...no. That's um... wrong.") is going to change that. And I'll venture I've worked in more writers' rooms of the LOST or FRIENDS variety (read: rooms hatching American network TV shows) than you have, or could, or will. So have fun on DEGRASSI 2017, okay?
Christ...
Well your cleverness in monikers certainly shows that A-level cant that's led to many a witty riposte on According To Jim, but to climb down off the penis-measuring table for a moment -- the point of those defending the FRIENDS lawsuit was that the writing room IS, in fact, a unique workplace, with unique rules. In throwing out the Lyle lawsuit 7-0 (and assessing costs!) the justices in California pretty much unanimously agreed.
Now...you chose to post your delightful comment under the guise of anonymity. You didn't sign your name, attach an email address to that name, and be damned -- you wanted to be able o say what you wanted to say and remain anonymous.
So in slagging my point of view, you hid behind the very protection that I was arguing is necessary, and you are arguing is impossible. Nice rhetorical trick.
Thanks for the Degrassi 2017 suggestion. I'll get working on it right after I'm finished my pitch for Due South with Robots.
This is your blog, and this is an old post, so OK, no need to address my question this late.
However, what is the limit of freedom in a writers' room? What in your eyes would constitute sexual harassment, or a racially or ethnically hostile environment? Does each person who steps into that room have to behave like a honorary white man, to get and keep respect?
Why is secrecy denigrated when it's for government policies we don't like, but OK when it's in the service of content we like as fans?
It seems from past posts about fan campaigns and internet talk that you want fans to shut the hell up and provide publicity on demand, without question or interference on actual productions. Fine. Should the fans4writers campaigns stop? They're lobbying the studios to get back to the negotiation tables, instead of sending peanuts to get JERICHO back. Why is one type of campaign not interference in the production process, and the other, not?
I am willing to be wrong, in asking these questions, just as a writer is, in the room. I'll keep on reading, because I don't know the answers, and I had to point out the contradictions. Silly me, I took someone who had the guts to ruin her career by filing a sexual harassment in Hollywood seriously, even if she lost and had to pay costs. Just because she fought a production company and a studio without a union behind her does not make her evil; it just made her outclassed.
Well, you do approach with a whole bunch of assumptions and a rather large chip. I'd like to think that the real cumulative effect of the posts I've made on this blog is not "fans should shut up" but really, "creator/writers should limit what they say and how they interact with fans." Fandom and message boards and "having their say" -- is for fans. Creators and writers only screw things up when they come in and try to take part.
My point on fan campaigns has only ever been that fans should probably do something that, you know, might work.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to my opinions, and I'm going to guess that has to do with fanfic. I can't help it if a lot of the fanfic writers don't see nuance. Don't speak for all fans though -- because I've found a lot who are incredibly nuanced. Please don't speak for them.
As for the Lawsuit, well, yup, you're perfectly entitled to see it that way. But most of us here in the world know that a unanimous court decision in any context sends a message - because it so rarely happens. A unanimous decision with costs assessed is another thing entirely. You can choose to see nefarious doings.
Finally -- what constitutes sexual harassment? Sexual harassment. What constitutes racial insensitivity? Racial insensitivity.
Writers tend to be very smart people. And pretty with it. It's not that hard to decide. But the boundary probably is farther than in normal workplaces. Which is as it should be.
The most important thing in a room is: be on. be funny. Respect flows from that. The end.
I'd love to know what your TWOP name was. I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.
Uh no. For once I actually take my own advice.
I saw the linkbacks, and tracked the traffic back to the post, and read some of the comments. But TWOP people scare me. I do not, and will not wade in. Not my thing.
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